Curse

Kakumei · Aug 20, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You are only referring to level 20 "Hack&Slash", but that is not relevant, to quote what it is about:

You should probably go ahead and define what you mean by "hack and slash" because I have no idea what you're talking about.

Amy Awien · Aug 20, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

It wasnt the "lack" of content that drove you back to Tyria...it's your own biases and your unwillingless to let go of Prophecies.

Do not pretend to know why other people do something, you can not read minds and attempts to do so will only make you look foolish. Everyone has their own perspective, but calling a perspective that does not agree with yours "biased" is cheap and disrespectfull. Such tactics suit The Jester Prince better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

My point is to not confuse your personal biases with actual issues.

Mhh, and what about you confusing your personal biases with the actual issues? Everyone has their own outlook.

Btw, the outlook of which one of you would that be, Childe of Malkav?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

You should probably go ahead and define what you mean by "hack and slash" because I have no idea what you're talking about.

It's the combat part of the game. If there's a lot of fighting and only a small story, I call it Hack&Slash.

Digital Bath · Aug 20, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

I will say that some areas of Factions are a barren wasteland, but the same can be said for areas in Proph. A lot of people are concentrated in farming areas in both chapters, so that does take away from quest/mission areas, unless they are a farming spot as well. I will say, that I prefer Proph. over Faction because you can learn skills from quests, I enjoy the storyline more (as broken as it may be), and because there are no locked doors/gates/etc. that pigeon hole you into doing a certain quest or even just exploring.

Rabid China Girl · Aug 21, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Just to highlight how frickin' ridiculous some of the Factions quests can get...

On the path to Ghial farming, I stumbled upon the Tengu colony where you can get a quest from the leader, Quill. He asks you to speak to someone from the Ministry of Earth and prevent his colony from being demolished. The NPC you need to talk to is some guy outside of Senji's. But what this whole quest boils down to is paying 2k for 10k experience. You have the option of bribing the NPC to keep him from destroying the Tengu colony.

I don't know but to me, that was just ridiculous, even as far as Faction quests go. I mean, sure you could say that it's cheap and people might like the boost toward lvl 20.. but aren't most players lvl 20 by the time they get to Senji's?

darted · Aug 21, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Nah I don't like factions strictly for the lack of pve content.... Well "lack" may be a bad word to describe it. Not so much a lack of content just alot of poorly planned content. My problems with it:

1) No skills as quest rewards (I have to farm even more to afford them)

2) I enjoyed level 20 being a challenge, not create a character and 3 hours later voila lvl 20. (Maybe exaggerated a little but not by much)

3) Alliance system...dunno why just not a fan of how the elite missions can be totally kept under wraps if an alliance wants to.

4) Henchie AI worse than chapter 1, don't know how but it always is.

5) Inconsistent monster lvl's... if I'm lvl 3, fighting lvl 3-4 monsters I don't want to see a lvl 12 in the middle of the group I aggroed. (I think they fixed that but I remember it being a problem)

6) Timed missions? Great.....now my bonus xp relies on my team not being leechers, having overactive bladders, or having a massive urge to go get something to drink which will inevitably lead to another "afk brb". All that rather than actual skill...

7) Being forced to choose a side... why can't I remain neutral? (this isn't a big deal to me just a minor annoyance. It just so happens I at least like the Luxons

)

8) Monster Rit's can deal massive damage but whenever I do it, well lets just say my damage is pathetic compared to theirs. It doesn't matter what level the monsters are their channelling is always set at 30 or something.

9) Merchants and vendors not talking to me if my faction is below what 1k? I hate warping back to friggen Kaineng every time I want to sell something.

The list can go on and on... needless to say I spend alot of time in prophecies.

I must say that I agree with most of this.

Except the merchants. If you choose to remain neutral or are allied with the 'enemy' then why should they trade with you? However, I agree it is a pain. Especially if in a good group and not everyone ready to warp just so you can sell. Why not a merch that will sell at a discount to non-allies?

I like factions missions for some reasons, but I agree with the 'flaws' listed above.

darted · Aug 21, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

One amendment to my prior post.
The henchies aren't in general worse. But their are problems with the rez AI, getting some better and a few other idiosynchrocies.

kazjun · Aug 21, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Like the poster above said, the quests are pretty much stupid for anyone who's level 20 already. 2plat for 10k xp, eh, nice I guess if you need it, which you shouldn't since there are a ton of quests who give out plenty of exp anyway which are along the way. Not that the quests are interesting though, I just ended up trekking through the same place over and over again. Maybe if you were to do them now, you could just get a list off guildwiki and do all the quests in an area at once but when I did them with my main I just ended up going back and forth to the same area over and over. And having to kill the same boring mobs over and over.

Which is the main prob of questing now. I got factions when it first came out and I went over with my tyrian warrior, finished all the missions and quests (even that one you get from the guard on top of tahnakai temple, which is harder to get to than most of the missions are to do). I did it cause it was new and I was curious, but really, lvl20 and about 90 unused skill points (I got all my warrior skills and most of the necro and some of the other prof skills you use with a war) xp is worthless, the drops from questing are pretty poor (for the time involved you get better going to the UW or FoW) unless its a boss farming spot and the money is likewise poor compared to beating on armoured cave spiders.

Which means, I've done them on my prime and have no need or want to do them again. Unless they're right outside town, I'm not likely to go do them again unless they friends or guildies. Hell, all my other chars have done nothing but primary quests and missions, unless the quest was right on the way, and that's just cause I want the kurzick armour. Doing some random piddly quest is pointless to me, I spend my time on pvp or the faction battles. Other than that, farming's the only pve I do right now.
I expect that it's the same for most people which is why you find it tough to get parties for quests. Maybe with the new items I might go help people with quests since the mobs may drop something while I'm out there, but even then farming for items is best done solo so...

torquemada · Aug 21, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Truth to tell, I can't say I believe Nightfall will bring any fun in GW PvE. The reason simply being that PvE cannot reward it's players. Keyword is balance of PvP, consequently dragging PvE part into it.

And balanced PvE is not fun, because you'll never be super-equipped or owerpowering. And I'm not thinking level-wise. Level should be set at 20, not only for balance sake, but to escape needless grind. I mean you'll never feel you're developing your character in PvE again, simply because addons cannot support 1-20 levelup across half a map, but will almost-instantly leave you at 20. PvE is about progress, heroism, immersion and all that. Well, you can't have it! Game must be balanced.

People complain about "Grinding" and "boring" feel of quests&missions, even if they are endgame content. It's simply because there's no rewards to fight for. Exp? What the hell do I need exp for? What do I need skillpoints? Money rewards are also meh. What fuels PvE (and should) is rewards and challenge. And by rewards I don't mean new skins on green weapons just as strong as ordinary ones. But this must remain so as long as PvE and PvP chars intermingle. That's why I think PvE is doomed in GW, whatever PvE content Nightfall brings. A bit of refreshment is competitive missions, but these are also PvE content, because PvP community shuns them. Maybe really a drastic measure is needed - divide PvE and PvP parts once for all. Make PvE chars/equipment "heroic" and PvP "balanced".

And please make better looking armors (better skins), most current ones (plain example are ALL ele armours - why cant they have robes, ffs?!) look like barbie's dressup.

There is also a ton of useless skills atm, or just weakened versions of good ones. I wouldn't mind pruning that jungle just one bit.

What I'd also suggest is to totally separate PvP from PvE content in regard that PvE players cannot enter PvP areas and vice-versa.

Otherwise, I really suspect GW PvE will bore seasoned players to death in Nightfall, no matter how cleverly designed.

Knightsaber Sith · Aug 21, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

People complain about "Grinding" and "boring" feel of quests&missions, even if they are endgame content. It's simply because there's no rewards to fight for. Exp? What the hell do I need exp for? What do I need skillpoints? Money rewards are also meh. What fuels PvE (and should) is rewards and challenge. And by rewards I don't mean new skins on green weapons just as strong as ordinary ones. But this must remain so as long as PvE and PvP chars intermingle. That's why I think PvE is doomed in GW, whatever PvE content Nightfall brings. A bit of refreshment is competitive missions, but these are also PvE content, because PvP community shuns them. Maybe really a drastic measure is needed - divide PvE and PvP parts once for all. Make PvE chars/equipment "heroic" and PvP "balanced".

I don't have any problem with the "quality" of pve in Factions; I thought it was fine; for me it's about the "quantity". Tyria has 25 missions and Cantha has 13. Tyria is far larger than Cantha and inherently has far more quests. I never get bored; if there's something to do, no matter how tedious, I'll do it. Also, I don't mind xp rewards cause unlike most people I buy every skill for every class for every campaign (but I'm not one of those people that spends all day every day in fow/uw to get 35 mil xp).

bungusmaximus · Aug 21, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Lolz, everyone hates factions here, I bought factions first, and then prophecies. Guess what, I actually like Factions better then Prophecies (but that can change since I'm not further than the desert yet). I agree with the ppl when it comes to quantity though, but I cant get ppl complaining about the lack of decent players or PUGs. I mostly join PUGs that ask for a specific profession, because they mostly seem to think carefully about the team build and therefore seem to know what they are doing. I think players are generally nice too. I had 2 jerks in 3 months of GW and i use PUGs a lot. Maybe I'm just lucky, I should cherish that...

Maybe because of that I like the timed mission better also. And if theres one thing I cant get enough of it is beating Urgoz (or, at least, trying to beat Urgoz). The only thing thats bloody annoying is teams with noobies advertising they want to beat missions at master level, you know that ppl like that do it for the first time since noobies never skip the cinematics. Too bad I never leave a group out of decency.

Blackhawk · Aug 21, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

Maybe really a drastic measure is needed - divide PvE and PvP parts once for all. Make PvE chars/equipment "heroic" and PvP "balanced".

What I'd also suggest is to totally separate PvP from PvE content in regard that PvE players cannot enter PvP areas and vice-versa.

Otherwise, I really suspect GW PvE will bore seasoned players to death in Nightfall, no matter how cleverly designed.

QFT, and sorry for chopping your post up a bit torquemada, but those parts mentioned are what I've been saying for months

Amy Awien · Aug 21, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

Truth to tell, I can't say I believe Nightfall will bring any fun in GW PvE. The reason simply being that PvE cannot reward it's players. Keyword is balance of PvP, consequently dragging PvE part into it.
...
PvE is about progress, heroism, immersion and all that. Well, you can't have it! Game must be balanced.

There exist fantastic modules for NWN that have no, or little, character progress (and some even come with prebuild characters). PvE does not equal character building and can be much more then that.

Given that people will want to take their existing characters into these coming chapters ANet would, imo, have to come with a solid main story (or stories, why not?), interesting sidequests and challenging combat.

Yakumo · Aug 21, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petardo

In the euro districts almost all the cities are empty (obviously except KG or House Zu H.)... For me the problem is: if there are ppl they only want to:
1) sell stuff
2) sell other stuff
3) farming

For me, I've been tainted by greed, and the innocence of questing and exploring has long since gone.

RemusShepherd · Aug 21, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

EDIT: Maybe ANET should give the option of starting a character in Tyria even with "foreign" characters. That way you people who want your prolonged leveling experience can have that and not screw it up for everyone else.

I'd love to start a Canthan character in Tyria. I want to start up a Ritualist, but after playing through Shing Jae and Keineng with an Assassin, I just don't want to go back there.

Age · Aug 21, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

You could always make fan driven content as they are to busy.I did read in the eula that players can be make fan made content and be given an ftp to upload it to thier servers.They will check it out for mal ware etc.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 22, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Everyone has their own perspective, but calling a perspective that does not agree with yours "biased" is cheap and disrespectfull. Such tactics suit The Jester Prince better.

Look up the word biased before you flame me. You obviously dont understand the meaning because you took offense to it. And it's sad that you had to flame another poster by name who's not even in this thread.

Thallandor · Aug 22, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by torquemada

Truth to tell, I can't say I believe Nightfall will bring any fun in GW PvE. The reason simply being that PvE cannot reward it's players. Keyword is balance of PvP, consequently dragging PvE part into it.

And balanced PvE is not fun, because you'll never be super-equipped or owerpowering. And I'm not thinking level-wise. Level should be set at 20, not only for balance sake, but to escape needless grind. I mean you'll never feel you're developing your character in PvE again, simply because addons cannot support 1-20 levelup across half a map, but will almost-instantly leave you at 20. PvE is about progress, heroism, immersion and all that. Well, you can't have it! Game must be balanced.

People complain about "Grinding" and "boring" feel of quests&missions, even if they are endgame content. It's simply because there's no rewards to fight for. Exp? What the hell do I need exp for? What do I need skillpoints? Money rewards are also meh. What fuels PvE (and should) is rewards and challenge. And by rewards I don't mean new skins on green weapons just as strong as ordinary ones. But this must remain so as long as PvE and PvP chars intermingle. That's why I think PvE is doomed in GW, whatever PvE content Nightfall brings. A bit of refreshment is competitive missions, but these are also PvE content, because PvP community shuns them. Maybe really a drastic measure is needed - divide PvE and PvP parts once for all. Make PvE chars/equipment "heroic" and PvP "balanced".

And please make better looking armors (better skins), most current ones (plain example are ALL ele armours - why cant they have robes, ffs?!) look like barbie's dressup.

There is also a ton of useless skills atm, or just weakened versions of good ones. I wouldn't mind pruning that jungle just one bit.

What I'd also suggest is to totally separate PvP from PvE content in regard that PvE players cannot enter PvP areas and vice-versa.

Otherwise, I really suspect GW PvE will bore seasoned players to death in Nightfall, no matter how cleverly designed.

Somehow I agree with torquemada on this, that the idea of instance teamwork missioning was a novel and interesting idea when it first came to be more than a year ago but it would be difficult to recreate that feeling and re-experience Guildwars again even with nightfall seening how things are likely to be the same since it is suppose to be a standalone product as well hence possessing overall similar game mechanics overlapping the other chapters. Not forgetting more PvE nerfs to accomodate the PvP balancing...

I am begining to lose hope...